Saturday, 26 June 2010

'Liver Flushes' and 'Mucoid Plaque'

I still occasionally see people extolling the benefits of 'liver flushes'.

In the same family we have 'gallbladder flushes', 'intestinal cleanses', etc. The process of the 'flush' generally consists of a few days of juice diet followed by drinking a large quantity of oil and something acidic (eg lemon juice/vinegar). If vomiting hasn't occurred, the health-seeker will then pass, it is claimed, 'gallstones'. Although it is possible for people to do these things without commercial help, we see companies charging vast amounts for products/programmes built around these practices.

We also see people recommending the eating of 'bentonite clay', which, it is claimed, will free 'mucoid plaque' (and photo's of what is claimed to be 'mucoid plaque' are presented to horrify us all - yes, surely 'better out than in'!)

In this article, I'm going to draw together information from various sources that I hope will persuade anyone tempted to part with their money, or even simply to carry out such 'cleanses' themselves, that they are nothing more than 'snake oil' - quack remedies.

John MacDougall MD: 'Many people believe this alternative therapy really works, but the 'gallbladder flush' is a myth.'

Raw food leader Frederic Patenaude: 'I believe this is one of the biggest scams running in the alternative health movement.'

I will also freely admit that a 'liver flush' was certainly on my 'to do' list in my first year of raw, and know lots of intelligent, savvy people who have been persuaded to do them. It's only because I'm an insatiable internet researcher (OK, and perhaps a natural sceptic!) that I discovered that these 'flushes' were not quite what they purported to be, and I share the results of my findings, conclusions and suggestions with you here.

I also feel that, probably, most of the people recommending them (and selling them) do genuinely believe in them themselves, and have others' interests at heart.

I will explain how I do believe that people do experience feelings of well-being on the 'flushes', and how the days spent on them can indeed change people's lives for the better, BUT that these phenonema are either the result of deception OR due to good things associated with, or that lead from, the experience of the flushes. If that doesn't sound clear, and I realise it may not, please read on.

I'll be discussing most the 'flushes' which have the common element of a juice diet for a few days, followed by drinking a cup (at least - often much more) of olive oil and a cup of lemon juice (or anything acidic, eg vinegar) over a few hours. Variations include ingestion of magnesium sulphate, herbs etc. I'll comment more briefly on 'cleanses' that involve eating clay.

I'll include quotes from raw food leaders, and also evidence from medics (some overlap between the two groups).


'THE XXX FLUSH IS FANTASTIC - I EXPELLED HUNDREDS OF GALLSTONES!'

Those 'stones'...

Dr Douglas Graham (in Fresh Network 'Raw - Your Biggest Questions Answered'): 'The oils consumed are saponified by the body, meaning they turn into little beads that have a soap-like quality. True gallstones are made of either calcium or cholesterol, or a combination of the two. The 'stones' that are passed following a 'gallbladder flush' (sometimes called a 'liver flush') are no more than the oil consumed the previous day, saponified. If these 'stones' are left on the dashboard of a car in the sun, or any other warm spot, they will melt back into oil. The green and brown colouration in the stones is due to the presence of bile salts.'

Thomas Lodi, MD (also in FN book as above): 'When the stones that are passed after a 'gallbladder flush' are examined, they are not found to contain cholesterol, bile pigments, bile salts, calcium or any other constituents of gallstones, but rather residues from the oil ingested.'

(Note that Graham and Lodi differ on whether bile is present. I have heard people describe the 'stones' as very foul-smelling, and indeed bile is foul-smelling - bitter, sour, sulphurous.)

Frederic Patenaude: 'Here's what a pathologist has to say on the topic. The 'recipe' he's referring to is the gallbladder flush: 'Real gallstones are faceted polyhedra. What you'll get from the recipe are spheres. One of my correspondents describes a friend who saved the sphere and displayed them to his friends. Real gallstones hurt bad when they pass through the cystic and common bile ducts. Real gallstones sink in water. (As an autopsy pathologist, I'm very familiar with this.) The 'gallstones' you'll produce from this recipe will float, as the 'alternative thinkers' themselves point out. They claim that real gallstones float, too. Liars.' (Source: http://www.pathguy.com/)

Christian Sies (The Lancet, Apr 16, 2005): 'A 40-year-old patient with many 1-2mm gallstones underwent a 'liver cleansing' with apple and vegetable juice, followed by 600 ml of olive oil and 300 ml of lemon juice, taken over several hours. She painlessly passed semisolid green 'stones' with her stool. She brought them to her doctor, who examined them under a microscope and found no crystalline structures (as would be seen in an actual gallstone). Heating to 40 degree C for 10 minutes caused the 'stones' to melt. Analysis showed they contained no cholesterol, bilirubin, or calcium (like a real stone might have). Chemical analysis found the 'stones' were fat globules mostly from the olive oil. The investigators next made similar balls that looked like stones in their lab by mixing olive oil and lemon juice and then drying the mixture. Sometime later, the actual stones, which were made of cholesterol, were removed from the woman's gallbladder by a surgeon.'

Peter Moran, MB, BS, BSc (Med): 'The stones are merely bile-stained 'soaps' produced by partial saponification (soap formation) of the oil. A recent demonstration found that mixing equal volumes of oleic acid (the major component of olive oil) and lemon juice produced several semi-solid white balls after a small volume of potassium hydroxide solution was added. After air-drying at room temperature, these balls became quite solid and hard. When formed in the intestine, these objects absorb bile and become green. It has also been shown that red dye will appear in the interior of the 'stones' if consumed with the oil.'

Moran has also used ultrasound images showing the movement through the gallbladder of real gallstones to demonstrate that these 'stones' are not gallstones. He also points out that gallstones sink, and the 'stones' float. He adds: 'Supporters of the flushes claim that although some kinds of stones sink in water, cholesterol stones, being composed of lighter material, will float. That's not true. Cholesterol stones can display some buoyancy while in the gallbladder, but only by floating between the older, concentrated bile lying in the lowest part of the gallbladder and the fresher, less concentrated bile above.' (In other words - not in the toilet!).

So the 'gallstones' people have been so overjoyed to be 'free of' are simply spheres the body has created to deal with all the oil drunk!


EATING CLAY ('MUCOID PLAQUE')

As I've just shown that the evidence of 'cure' in 'liver flushes' is simply the result of ingesting the ingredients of the 'cleanse' itself, I'll show how similar applies with 'cleanses' involving the eating of clay.

The manufacturers claim that this frees the body of 'mucoid plaque'.

Is there such a thing as 'mucoid plaque'?

Dao Earl: 'No, and that has been proven by colonoscopy.
Dr Doug Graham: 'I have spoken to over a dozen surgeons that specialise in intestinal surgery..never once has any of them seen evidence of mucoid plaque.'
Frederic Patenaude: 'Practising physicians have dismissed the concept of mucoid plaque as a hoax. A pathologist at the University of Texas School of Medicine said that he has 'seen several thousand intestinal biopsies and never seen any 'mucoid plaque'.

But...the photo's...

What is it that comes out of people after these 'cleanses'?

Here's a forum contribution from someone who tried such a 'cleanse' (sorry - I have no name, so if you're reading, please let me know who you are!):

'I am currently on day four of the XXX herbs cleanse, and I have been producing stuff that looks like the 'mucoid plaque' described, for the past two days. I started this cleanse very hopeful and open minded. However, doubts have been creeping in, actually since the 'mucoid plaque' stuff has been coming out. This morning, about three hours ago, I mixed a sachet of the toxin absorber, which is basically psyllium husk and bentonite clay, in a little water and have let it sit. It is now exactly the consistency of the 'mucoid plaque' that I have been producing. This has convinced me it is a scam, to be honest. As far as I can see, the toxin absorber (bentonite clay) doesn't shift the plaque - it IS the plaque. It's right here, before my eyes, in this cup. I've decided not to continue with the cleanse. I'm feeling very bunged up and crampy today, and if I thought it was actual mucoid plaque shifting, I wouldn't mind, but I feel like I've just clogged myself up with clay.'

From raw food nutritionist Adam: 'I think the reason the photo's look convincing is because you take the average three-heavy-meals-a-day person whose elimination system moves pretty slowly. Get them to fast for a few days while taking the mucus-lookalike-producing sachets and then start eliminating what seems like tons of accumulated waste, whereas it's probably just last week's dinner plus the sachets. Fear sells. People don't always listen to those who 'make sense' because our whole financial system is based upon marketing (fake) 'solutions' for people's (fake) 'problems'.

Dr Doug Graham: '...if you eat clay, the clay must come back out of you. It combines with the mucus in your intestinal tract [by the way, he also says that the psyllium itself, as an irritant, would form mucus], forming a sludge. Wet clay is excellent for modelling, and readily takes on the shape of its container. Hence, when photo's are taken of the clay inside the intestines, it can appear to look like plaque. When it comes out of the body, it can look like old faecal matter. But it is no more than the clay you ate the day before. It seems people are very easily fooled. Almost, it seems, they want to be fooled.'

EDIT - I recently came across an excellent article on 'mucoid plaque', written in 2004, here.


SO WHY DO PEOPLE OFFER TESTIMONIALS TO 'LIVER FLUSHES', SAYING THAT THEY CHANGED THEIR LIVES?

(I'm returning to 'liver flushes' here, but some of the following would also apply to the 'eating clay' products.)

Because, in many cases, they did experience very pleasant feelings - physically and/or psychologically during the 'flush', and the days spent 'liver flushing' did change their lives, in a positive way, often hugely.

I'll suggest a few reasons why these things could occur:

Stimulant effect

When we ingest something toxic, there is a stimulant effect. The body goes on 'red alert', 'all systems go', marshalling all its resources to cope with, fight, eliminate the invader. That's why we feel stimulated initially (with 'pay-back' later...) when we ingest drugs such as tobacco, alcohol, coffee etc (and to some extent cooked food).

Oil is a fractionated substance that our bodies are fine with when it comes as part of nature's package, ie within whole foods, not so fine with when we have it alone, eg as a salad dressing, and VERY not fine with when we drink a whole cup (or more) of it! Fractionated, unnatural substances in large quantities are toxic, and our bodies will respond accordingly. The enormous energy that the body will muster as its systems rally to cope with all that oil will certainly feel stimulating and may even result in a euphoric 'high'. This can be very pleasurable, and will of course ensure that we make good associations with 'flushes' in memory. However, stimulant effects deceive.

Placebo effect

I know what it's like in the first year of raw. We're pretty much on a 'high' anyway, and feel tremendously excited trying out all sorts of things! We're going to feel quite enthusiastic about doing the 'flush', be thinking quite positively, and, when we act 'as if' we're feeling good...we often do feel good! Also, if we've just paid £100 for the privilege, we will want to feel we're feeling good, and persuade ourselves that we are!!

The 'stones'

If we believe the 'stones' are 'gallstones' we're going to be very elated when we see these things come out of our bottom! Closely related to the placebo effect.

Laxative effect

Natural Hygienist Herbert Shelton: 'As the excess of oil has a laxative effect, the victim of this form of charlatanry and humbuggery often receives temporary relief from abdominal distress. This relief convinces them, also, that their 'stones' have passed.'

Juice diet

The juice-only diet in the days preceding the drinking of oil will in itself have a very positive effect on wellbeing, giving the body a much-needed digestive rest and freeing up energy for detoxification. Just two days freed from the standard diet (or in fact the digestion of any solid food) is a treat for the body.

Introduction to raw food

Often people who try these 'flushes' may, through trying them and similar 'treatments', stumble upon raw food sites, which of course are the real life-changers! (I suppose if I thought that every person on a standard cooked diet having a 'liver flush' would then discover and follow the raw food diet, I'd be saying 'Viva liver 'flushes'', but I'd also hope that they would soon discover articles such as this, and realise that, while they may have been part of an interesting journey to raw food, it's time now to give them the boot!)


LONG TERM USE OF 'LIVER FLUSHES'

I doubt there's any long-term problem caused by doing these things once or twice. A raw food diet can enable the body to bounce back from the various indignities we've subjected it to in the fast.

But I am concerned for those who do them over and over again, who haven't realised that they are fake 'remedies', and have become addicted to the short-term feelings (as described above) of well-being experienced on them.

I remember someone who had done several 'flushes', asking, if the flushes are fake, why after repeated 'cleanses', do fewer 'stones' come out?

Here's a Natural Hygiene explanation of why that might be. When our bodies first encounter a toxin, they will, if reasonably vital, react quickly and dramatically to deal with it. The most vital bodies will vomit out the oil, but the less vital will saponify the oil into balls to expel it. However, as with any toxin, the more we have, the more our bodies will be 'worn down' into 'tolerating' increasingly frequent doses of it, but at great price to our long-term health. Therefore, the ability of the body to quarantine up the oil into little balls will reduce with each flush. This will be enervating to the system, not to mention increasing the amount of fat in our bodies as the body is less able to expel, thereby increasing the chances of our getting real gallstones!

Drinking oil is not a good thing to do. Peter Moran, quoted earlier, has also said in his explanation of why 'liver flushes' are fake, that it is possible that a large oily meal (eg the flush) could stimulate strong gallbladder contraction and that a real gallstone might be expelled amongst all the fake ones.

(This sort of thinking is allied to the idea that if a herbal concoction promotes vomiting, or diarrhoea, or weeing, it is 'cleansing'. Natural Hygiene says that the vomiting, diarrhoea, and/or weeing is simply due to the body's efforts to expel the toxic irritant concoction itself and not 'healing' in any way, and is traumatic and enervating for the body.)

Also, Peter Moran says that even if the ingredients of the 'flush' did stimulate contraction in this way, those who do actually have real gallstones often have impaired ability of the gallbladder to empty anyway. (I'm not sure what the solution is, but it would seem daft to ingest large quantities of fat - the reason for the problems in the first place - in a misguided attempt to 'kickstart' the gallbladder into action.) So, if you do have real gallstones, they're unlikely to come out in a 'flush', and, if you don't have them, as explained - what you're seeing the toilet bowl aren't gallstones.




HOW TO CLEANSE WITHOUT BUYING SO-CALLED 'FLUSHES/CLEANSES'

Just remove the cause of toxicity and your body will do what's necessary to clean up. All by itself.

Liver/gallbladder problems will be due to the standard cooked diet. Raw food teacher Natalia Rose: 'I never recommend using oils therapeutically - there are much better ways to cleanse the organs. The gallbladder cleanses as the whole system cleanses...If you know you have a liver or gall bladder problem [my italics] you know that's from too many cooked proteins and cooked fats - not just in the liver and gallbladder but throughout the body. So you'd want to take a Pritikin-type approach and not only cut out meats and dairy but also limit nuts, seeds, avocados and oils dramatically.'

Herbert Shelton: 'Gallstones, kidney stones, liver stones, pancreas stones, etc, result from perversion of metabolism. The real cure is to restore normal metabolism. Normal metabolism will dissolve the stones. The tendency of an excess of oil is to further impair metabolism. Such treatment does not do good, but may do considerable harm.'


THE TWO ELEMENTS OF 'LIVER FLUSHES' THAT DO TRANSFORM HEALTH, ALL BY THEMSELVES, ARE:



  • Fasting (no food at all), or (not as good as fasting, but quite good) a juice diet. And to cover myself, if fasting for more than 24 hours, seek advice of suitably-qualified professional etc etc!
  • Positive thinking

Please don't drink oil or eat clay.

28 comments:

Antony said...

Another excellent and though provoking article. I have thought from time to time that I should do one of those but am glad now that I haven't got around to it yet. Thank you :-)

Debbie Took said...

Hi Anthony

Good to hear from you. The thing that stopped me in my first year was that I didn't fancy drinking a cup of oil. And of course there's a reason for that :-)

David Cohen said...

Quite a few years ago, I looked at several photos that had been posted showing expelled mucoid placque. I thought this was all pukka, and nearly parted with money. Even up until reading this article, I thought there was something in this. Thanks Debbie, for this. Your style is so unique compared with others.

Debbie Took said...

Yes, they were very persuasive. I'm not ruling out the possibility that there might be some yukkiness festering in our intestines, but I do believe that healthy living will, in time, allow our bodies to clean naturally. If we want to kickstart the process, or move it along a bit quicker, fasting is the way to go.

BodyCure said...

Another great article Debbie.

Due to my current stomach problems I had a colonosocpy this Friday. The day before the procedure I had to drink a laxative preperation which acted like a medicinal colonic - clearing out my colon completely. I was able to see the inside of my colon on the screen and can confirm that there was no mucoid type lining, infact the healthy parts were very clean with defined muscles, and where there was Crohns diesease it was red and inflammed with no sight of mucoid plaque.

I bought the liver cleanse book a couple of years ago but never did it as the thought of drinking the oil and lemon was so off putting - I am so glad I never did it now!

Debbie Took said...

Hi Bodycure

I'm sorry the colonoscopy took place as a result of stomach problems, but, on the other hand, how fascinating for you to be able to look inside!

I remember Dr Doug making another good point - that, basically, there isn't going to be any 'plaque' in our intestines because they are after all lined with mucous membranes, ie slippery!

Eco Mama said...

Great post! I've always suspected this, thank you for confirming.
xo
Eco Mama

Tim Griffin said...

Thank you for this very thorough article. I was a follower, once upon a time, of this same teaching through the Herb Doctor, Doctor Schulze. It was part of the beginning of my "raw journey". I read all his newsletters and used several of his products. But when I met the "Raw Family" in 2002, I quickly saw that these methods (super foods and cleanses) were not natural or necessary for health. Thank you, Tim Griffin

Debbie Took said...

Hi Tim

I also remember Victoria Boutenko (if by 'Raw Family' you mean the Boutenkos) making the point that we really don't have to buy products that, or eat foods that (are said to), 'zap parasites', as if we're following a raw food diet we shouldn't have 'parasites' anyway!

Greenmama said...

Well-researched and well-written!

You may find this video highly informative and supportive to what you are teaching here:

http://yourbodyiswater.info/members/p1d3/default/movies.html

Click on Topic: Colon Therapy

This Japanese doctor shows video of numerous colonoscopies, both before and after he gets people to cut out dairy and all meat (except fish). He also shows the effects of cancer and the toxic effects of traditional treatment on the colon. We are left to imagine the dramatic difference that a truly ideal diet would have on our colons!

Its a graphic video but really, a picture is worth 1,000 words.

Best wishes,

Marjorie

Debbie Took said...

I have seen this, Marjorie, but thank you so much for sending the link, as I hadn't kept it, and I know lots of readers will be interested to see it. In fact, I think I shall add the link to the first of my meat articles published last year.

Hanan Vedis said...

Debbie, this is a great article. I really appreciate how much attention and affection you put into your articles. Thank you.

Debbie Took said...

Thank you, Hanan :-)

Ryan said...

Thank you for this article. I have suspected for a long time that all these flushes/cleanses are, at best, a waste of time/energy/money, but now my mind is made up. I have never done any, and I certainly will not be doing any now.

Debbie Took said...

That's good to hear!

Amos said...

Thank you for this explanation. I wish I had read this post last week before I wasted my money. Just goes to show that I should listen to that inner voice that tells me to rely on pure, unmessed with nature.

Debbie Took said...

Hi Amos

Sorry to hear that, but, to put a positive spin on it, just experimenting can be interesting. I've wasted a lot of money since going raw (not least buying expensive 'superfoods' in my first year or two!).

cutestdrmaqueen said...

Debbie, thank you for your well written article. Very informative. While we are on the topic, I have a few questions for you. I have a lot of digestive problems. I am almost always bloated, constipated, crampy, full and so on. I also have been experiencing a lot of lethargy. Which in result, I just end up loading myself on loads of caffeine such as diet cokes and coffee just to get through the day. I am so tired of living this way! Oh did I mention I am only 26 :(
I am interested in going on a sort of 'fast'. By that I mean eliminating all processed and unhealthy foods. I did an all natural juice fast a little while back and i felt SO sick i didnt know what to do with myself. I had so much body pain (especially headaches, hip joints and lower back pain. omg ouch!). I was also so low on energy and just felt foggy and completely out of it...almost a sense of disconnect. I only lasted 4 days with the detox. I figured I was heavily detoxing. Just goes to show how toxic I really am. Anyway, considering my current crap condition, i would really like to try the healthy detox again and change my lifestyle once and for all.
I was thinking about doing a juicing diet (mostly mean green juices) with the exception of a bit of organic fish and lots of psyllium husk and water. I figured that was pretty much 90% raw and would be an effective cleanse to do for a while. You sound like someone who isn't out to sell an idea or a product. Also seeing that you have been a vegan for a while, your comments and help are every bit appreciate. In case you are wondering, I have gone to the doctor and have had tests done. Other than high cholesterol, I am 'healthy' (I don't get why I feel so unhealthy then). Therefore, evidently, there are no other 'real' issues going on other than just than my system is probably just exhausted, addicted and toxic. What do YOU suggest? Thanks again and your input is valued :)

Debbie Took said...

Hi

You definitely need to try 30 days raw vegan.

However, it is likely that you will experience discomfort initially.

Two articles I need you to read. Go to www.rawforlife.co.uk, Articles tab.

1. Raw 100% overnight or in stages (advantages and disadvantages).

2. What is detox?

Please do read them - I think they'll help greatly.

Very best wishes.

Debbie Took said...

PS You sent through two identical messages. I deleted one, which is why you will see it as 'rejected'.
Best wishes. DT.

Dr Ingle said...

Below is a research study on the effects of a gallbladder flush. I hope this puts the doubters to rest.
Home Remedy May Help Prevent Surgery in Some Patients with Gallstones

(North American Primary Care Research Group) Results of a study examining the efficacy of a traditional home remedy for inducing gallstone expulsion using lemon juice, olive oil, cascara sagrada and garlic/castile enemas suggested that this protocol has the potential to safely eliminate the need for gallstone surgery in a substantial percentage of patients. Six patients with symptomatic cholelithiasis proven by ultrasound were included in the study. The subjects completed a three-day treatment protocol and collected gallstones recovered from the enema. All of the patients passed stones. No side effects were observed, except for mild nausea in one patient. Intermittent ultrasound monitoring was performed for three hours per day each day of the protocol. A final ultrasound assessed the degree of clearing of cholelithiasis. Five of the patients were asymptomatic for follow-up periods ranging from two to 27 months; mild symptoms returned in one of these patients after three months. The patient who remained symptomatic underwent cholecystectomy about one month after the home-remedy protocol. One of the asymptomatic patients who passed all of her stones underwent cholecystectomy anyway under the advice of her surgeon. The investigators believe that, with modifications, this protocol could safely eliminate the need for surgery in many patients with cholelithiasis.—richard l. garrison, m.d., University of Texas Medical School, Houston.

Kim @ Bugs N Stuff said...

Thanks for this beautiful blog, Debbie.

As a cancer-survivor, I am constantly trying to improve what goes into me to keep my body strong and healthy, and have begun juicing and increasing (a lot!) the fiber and nutrient quality of my diet.

Some of my treatments have caused my liver to not act right on occasion, and a friend had recommended this "liver flush" to me, but I, too, had read that the stones were just products of the treatment, itself.

Thanks for the excellent medical research to help folks determine the validity of this treatment.

Be well and be blessed.

Kim

Debbie Took said...

Thank you, Kim, and very best wishes to you.

David Allardice said...

Excellent article. I was researching Mucoid Plaque and was about to do a cleanse and this article stopped me, thank you for helping me not mess with my body.

Fisher1 said...

Funny how those who have never done a liver flush love to try to disprove them. In order to turn olive oil into soap, there must be lye present. That is the ONLY way this can occur.

Back in March of 2014, I had a burning pain in my right upper abdomen, if my shirt brushed past that area, I felt much pain. I searched for reasons for this and on Web MD, the diagnosis was undoubtedly gallstones.

So I started searching for natural remedies if any, to eliminate those gall stones because the pain was getting unbearable. I came across the liver flush process and decided to try it and if it didn't work, I would have to seek medical help.

I followed the instructions to the letter and I passed a lot of little emerald green balls. The pain was gone even before passing them and I followed the instructions again and did another one after a month's time with even more stones being passed.

I always drank the same amount of olive oil and juice mixture but the volume of stones was different every time. By my fifth flush, maybe five stones passed.

If the olive oil and juice was being processed in a way that it would give the appearance of being gallstones but weren't, there would be the same volume of matter being passed every time.

One thing that I have learned, is to follow the money. Medical doctors make thousands of dollars by performing surgery to remove the much needed gall bladder, whereas the proponents of the liver/gall bladder flush most of the time, provide their information for free.

When investigating a crime, motive is one of the key things that must be proven in order to secure a conviction. The medical doctors have a strong motive for trying to disprove the liver/gall bladder flush because it cuts into their profits.

I know first hand that the liver/gall bladder flushes work! If it didn't work for me, I would be on here agreeing with the content of this post. Other changes in my own physiology include weight loss, clearer vision, more energy and stamina (which when constant, isn't a placebo effect), better digestion, no more constipation, more digestive regularity and skin issues being cleared up.

I have nothing to gain with this testimony, I am not selling anything and I am a wood worker, so my livelihood doesn't depend on me sharing this info. It is simply a personal testimony as to the fact that liver/gall bladder flushes do work.

This comment will probably never make it into the thread because it seems like all of the comments that are allowed, are in total agreement with the post which tells me that there is an agenda, but what the heck, I am submitting it anyway in hopes that another voice can be heard.

Thank you for your time.

Debbie Took said...

Fisher 1....pity you couldn't post without the last paragraph. You think that, because many/most of the comments here are in broad agreement with my article, that I must have prevented other posts from appearing? Sorry to disappoint you, but I publish all comments, including 'anti' comments, 'as they stand', as I think it's interesting for people to read them. You feel that I might have to have an 'agenda'. Sure, my agenda was, and still is, to persuade people not to waste their money. But, no...not in league with 'Big Pharma'! You clearly feel these things have worked for you, and wish your testimony to help others, so thank you for taking the time to post.

RCLVN said...

Liver flush does something obviously, I myself have done it many times sometimes producing many stones sometimes none.....in true scientific fact the end result must be consistent....in this it is not....now thats not to say every stone passed is an actual stone from the gallbladder .....however I do know that that emerald green color comes from bile with a high cholesterol content.....the darker the shade if green the more cholesterol and copper.......I have passed the color green many times when taking copper which pulls cholesterol into the bile.....concurrently I will notice weightloss....so it dan be said with high probability that most of these stones regardless if actual preexisting stones or not are indeed bile with a high cholesterol content.....just the fact that they were said to have bile salts is proof there is cholesterol in them since bile salts and acids are derived from cholesterol itself.....

John Doe said...

Liver flushes DO remove stones and I have proved this by removing over 2000 stones from my own liver and gallbladder. Even after the FIRST flush, in which I removed over 100 stones, some the size of a QUARTER and with absolutely NO pain, my digestion improved NOTICEABLY. (Prior to this, I never had any experience of acid reflux or any other digestive issue), and yet my digestion improved! After observing and counting so many stones come out, I was disgusted and decided to do several(10) more flushes on consecutive Fridays until no more came out! I removed a total of OVER 2000 stones and my health has NEVER been better! A lot of random symptoms also DISAPPEARED such as skin breakouts, low and high back pains, headaches and colds and many other seemingly unrelated issues.Also, my temperament and disposition has changed. I have recommended to my friends to try a flush and see what results and have been astounded to find that the more serious issues you have, the more results are achieved.I would hope that more people would try this simple,effective remedy and prove to themselves whether or not results may be obtained.In addition, you can use ANY type of oil (most web searches recommend olive oil) but I prefer COCONUT. Also, there is NO need to lay down on your side after drinking the oil. Just go on about your business. I use a simple mixture of 1:1 oil with any (your choice) of juice, that's all!